My reason for asking about the depth of Hendre Spar mine is because it seems to me that the distance we drop down through all the shafts by ropes and ladders is greater than the distance we climb up from the car park. In just want to get an idea of the level at which the mine was operated - and also how far into the mountain it extends. It would all be answered by mapping.

If the water is draining out then it is probably not draining into the rive - because there is not a river. It has already disappeared underground. I assume that the river actually drains to Milwr. So the water in Hendre Spar mine will also be finding its way to the Milwr. How far down is that? Are there known links from this area to Milwr?

The Milwr Tunnel is approx 440 feet below the road level and there is a link to it from Garreg Boeth which is only a field or two away from the Hendre Spar Mine.

I personally don't know the depth of the Spar mine but we have seen a further flooded incline (decline) with a divers line attached so there is yet more to see.

Someone, somewhere will have a plan of the mine system

Ian

Yes - there is a map (I assumed was drawn by Ian) at the beginning of this article, but now very out of date. But it is a diagram in plan for each floor. It would be interesting to see this mine in longitudinal section.

John
I intend to take my paragliding altimeter into the mine the next time I go.
I'll let you know the outcome.

That would be brilliant! It would be useful to have a reading at the car park and also at the place where the sheds are at the bottom of the incline.
There is a lot I still don't understand about this mine. Why did the miners draw their spoils UP the underground inclines from low levels, instead of driving the levels horizontally to the surface? Also where is the other part of the mine with an unflooded incline and a big chamber with machinery and a railway on a lower level? Or is this a different Hendre Spar mine?

I think the incline you are speaking of is down the first ladder to a lower level then you have to go through a small hole and abseil (SRT out).
THis is the incline that I reckon connects somehow to the flooded passage Tim speaks of.
UNfortunately the incline disappears into a huge rockfall that would need a jcb to dig out (or some mad bugger!)
I'm going to try to check the depth at the bottom of the incline and compare it with the new bottom of the mine.
RE driving levels horizontally...IF you think about it they could'nt drive them horizontally as they would be permanently underground!

Permanently underground...
That's why I am so interested in the levels. It just feels to me that when we go down to the new lower unflooded floor, we must be lower than the outside - i.e. lower than the main road and remains of river. But the incline we see disappearing into water goes even lower. There is only one railway track so I assume the trolleys were winched up, and then again up to the floor above and then out somewhere.

How accurate is your meter?

Went to spa mine last night and took my altimeter.
Using the car park as a reference (altitude 0') here are the readings.

Sheds on path +40'
Entrance +130'
Bottom of firemans hose +130'!
Top of multi ladders & chain/rope section +120
Bottom of the latter +10
Bottom of mine where water has gone -40'

If you now move to the area that was originally permenently rigged for SRT.
At the small hole (leading to lower incline) +70'
Bottom of that abseil 0'
Bottom of steep incline -40'
Top of steep incline +40'

Conclusion.
I reckon that the bottom of the steep incline is the same track as we see in the section that has dried out (but still has some water in it). Although the bottom of this incline seems to carry on at a steep angle this does suggest that there may also be a lower level as suggested by the divers line.
THe blocked exit at the top of the steep incline would actually come out at the same level as the sheds on the path.

RE: Water level.I also sopke to a chap who told me that the quarry behind the mine was pumping a considerable amount of water into the mine. THey have now stopped the pumping (he guessed about 8 months ago)so it could be that the mine has always been draining but at the same time being topped up by the quarry!

FInally he is convinced that there is a second entrance to the mine from the Cilcain end, he remembers mining going on there and said he reckons there may still be an entrance. If that is so where does it go as the lower tunnel certainly ends at the working face.
There seems to be some further working along that tunnel and through a small hole in the roof. I saw a ladder there and a bit of pipe as if someone had attempted to climb up.
Anyone know where it goes?
Meant to pace out the tunnel to get an idea how long but lost count!
Phew thats it!!!!!!!!!

Fantastic work! And a really interesting read.

I can't believe that I hadn't considered the possibility of the quarry pumping water into the mine. We had a similar situation in Oakley a few years back, but in reverse. They were pumping water out of their pit, having the effect of draining the lower levels of the abandoned mine.

There is another spar mine in Cilcain, but as far as I know it doesn't connect.

There are 4 Spar mines that I know of, three of which are in or very near Cilcain and they do not connect.

The length of the tunnel was paced out by Crazy John and I "think" he reckoned it to be 700m

.... nice job Frank

Ian

This is such fantastic information Frank. I have not been into the SRT part of Hendre, but am intrigued by the pictures. Is it possible to draw a section diagram from your measurements? By the 'Car Park' I assume you mean where we park at the Royal Oak car park.

Has anyone got a recent pic of the incline into water via the wormhole. im wondering how much that has dropped and what is available to see.

Marty. I've got some but they're on the camera the missus has got so it'll be Friday before I can load them.


John, yes the car park is the Royal Oak.

OOHH... has Marty got a nice new face?

Hi Frank,
I am a bit puzzled by your measurement...

Sheds on path +40' - OK
Entrance +130' - OK (but feels a lot more when you climb the slope)
Bottom of firemans hose +130'!

I note the exclamation mark. Does this mean that the route creeps slowly up hill and I did not notice this is happening? So the top of the firemans hose could be higher than the entrance?

I assume the access to the other part of the mine is via the hole that I have always crossed with the railway tracks. If anyone fell down that hole how far is the drop?

How difficult would it be to fit new ladders to enable non-SRT people to get into this section? If I could get a ladder, then how difficult would it be to get it into place? Obviously a long ladder will not go through the doorway at the bottom of the first shaft, but I seem to recall seeing another vertical hole with trees and daylight showing. Is there a picture of Marty in this hole somewhere?

Another thought, if the water level is dropping because the operator of the quarry nearby has stopped pumping water into the mine, then is it known whether they hold a valid discharge licence to do so? If they were to start pumping again then would this pose any danger to people standing in the lower chambers? Is it known how the quarry connects to the mine?

JohnNicholson wrote: I would assume that if they started puming whilst someone was in the mine then it would take a while to fill up. THe information i had was from a local person and the deduction about the stopping of the pumping and dropping water level is purely speculative.

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